Monday, February 19, 2007
Okay...
So I have found out that if you really want to work people up, you do either one of two things:
Say you talked to God, who told you that she wanted to do away with certain Telly-vangelists
and
Ask folks about a theory of man.
First, the whole God conversation thing. As it was pointed out to me by my friend Nicole and a few others, it ain't very Christian to send various Telly-vangelists off of a cliff. I stand corrected. I am not of the authority to judge so I'll shut up. Thanks to my friend Nicole for setting me straight.
But if I may say this...don't listen to these snake oil salesmen and saleswomen and definitely don't send them money.
Second, stop e-mailing me to say that we are made in God's image. That is an easy out to who we are and why we do what we do. Besides if we were truly created in God's image, we would treat each other and our world a lot better.
Thirdly some questions came as to my personal bio and beliefs:
I was raised in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. At 15 I knew that there was a lot more to the story that they were willing to tell me. That curiosity stayed with me and propelled me a few years ago into a more historical search of Jesus. I read with fascination the work of Dominic Crossan, Karen Armstrong and John Shelby Spong among others. Of these I recommend Crossan's "A Historical Biography of Christ" and Spong's "Liberating the Gospels".
The more I humanized Jesus, the more I came to admire him. Lately I have begun the works of Jurgen Moltmann, beginning at the beginning with "Theology of Hope". I had the good fortune of meeting Professor Moltmann and was captivated by his faith and his optimistic outlook, particularly in so much as his views on Eschatology, or as it's more popularly known, the End Times. I don't believe in the whole Book of Revelation, Beast, torment, etc. and I certainly don't believe in the ridiculous notion of a rapture. The only thing the rapture is good for is selling books, as in the Scofield Bible and those silly "Left Behind" books.
I don't believe in an actual resurrection (spiritual yes, empty tomb, no) I believe that Jesus was more than likely only one of as many as fifty people hung on the cross that day and that the odds are he stayed there until his bones fell to the ground. I believe that the disciples split on the day he was arrested (Mark 14:50), symbolized by Peter's denial.
I believe that Jesus was more than likely married because it is what Jewish men did at that time usually at a young age, and I believe that we don't have a whole lot on him before he began preaching because during that time he worked in Nazareth and lived a fairly mundane early first century life.
Less glam and more man, I guess. Somewhere between the Council of Nicea and here today we robbed Jesus of his humanity, I think we need to give it back.
That's my theology.
Peace,
RW
So I have found out that if you really want to work people up, you do either one of two things:
Say you talked to God, who told you that she wanted to do away with certain Telly-vangelists
and
Ask folks about a theory of man.
First, the whole God conversation thing. As it was pointed out to me by my friend Nicole and a few others, it ain't very Christian to send various Telly-vangelists off of a cliff. I stand corrected. I am not of the authority to judge so I'll shut up. Thanks to my friend Nicole for setting me straight.
But if I may say this...don't listen to these snake oil salesmen and saleswomen and definitely don't send them money.
Second, stop e-mailing me to say that we are made in God's image. That is an easy out to who we are and why we do what we do. Besides if we were truly created in God's image, we would treat each other and our world a lot better.
Thirdly some questions came as to my personal bio and beliefs:
I was raised in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. At 15 I knew that there was a lot more to the story that they were willing to tell me. That curiosity stayed with me and propelled me a few years ago into a more historical search of Jesus. I read with fascination the work of Dominic Crossan, Karen Armstrong and John Shelby Spong among others. Of these I recommend Crossan's "A Historical Biography of Christ" and Spong's "Liberating the Gospels".
The more I humanized Jesus, the more I came to admire him. Lately I have begun the works of Jurgen Moltmann, beginning at the beginning with "Theology of Hope". I had the good fortune of meeting Professor Moltmann and was captivated by his faith and his optimistic outlook, particularly in so much as his views on Eschatology, or as it's more popularly known, the End Times. I don't believe in the whole Book of Revelation, Beast, torment, etc. and I certainly don't believe in the ridiculous notion of a rapture. The only thing the rapture is good for is selling books, as in the Scofield Bible and those silly "Left Behind" books.
I don't believe in an actual resurrection (spiritual yes, empty tomb, no) I believe that Jesus was more than likely only one of as many as fifty people hung on the cross that day and that the odds are he stayed there until his bones fell to the ground. I believe that the disciples split on the day he was arrested (Mark 14:50), symbolized by Peter's denial.
I believe that Jesus was more than likely married because it is what Jewish men did at that time usually at a young age, and I believe that we don't have a whole lot on him before he began preaching because during that time he worked in Nazareth and lived a fairly mundane early first century life.
Less glam and more man, I guess. Somewhere between the Council of Nicea and here today we robbed Jesus of his humanity, I think we need to give it back.
That's my theology.
Peace,
RW
Labels: God, Jesus, left behind, rapture, televangelists, theory of man
# posted by Unknown @ 7:17 PM 
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I have to be honest... I'm a little disappointed in this week's post (actually, you didn't post last week.). There's just no meat here. Still, I appreciate your effort. So... I, myself, never get worked up when folks say they've talked with God. I think that's great. And from what the Bible says, so does God. He wants to have a realtionship with us -- it's why He sent His Son to earth. However, I don't understand why you continue painting all evangelists ("Telly-" or otherwise) as "snake oil salesman". I don't believe you are that facile.
As to being made in God's image; it's what the Bible says. The fact is, though, that we've fallen and thus we treat each other horribly (though Christ told us to love one another; His second commandment after telling us to love His Father).
Now, as to you and your "bio". At 15 you just "knew that there was a lot more to the story than they [Who? Those @ your Synod?] were willing to tell (you)." Okay, let me accept that on face value. Before going to explore Crossan, Armstrong, and Spong, did you read the Bible first? Cover to cover? In an engaged, thoughtful way? The Bible is a message -- God's message to us -- that is not just written as we would write, chapter by chapter adressing particular issues and concerns. The Bible is delivered, if you will, over a "broad spectrum" or, to use another ancient analogy, it is an intricately woven tapestry. To quote the axiom, the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed; the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. It's as simple and as complicated as all that. I encourage you (because I don't believe you have) read the Bible, first -- if, in fact, you are a serious scholar as you've said -- before reading commentaries and criticisms. By the way, I'm all for commentaries and criticisms. Just know what it is that's being critiqued.
As to being made in God's image; it's what the Bible says. The fact is, though, that we've fallen and thus we treat each other horribly (though Christ told us to love one another; His second commandment after telling us to love His Father).
Now, as to you and your "bio". At 15 you just "knew that there was a lot more to the story than they [Who? Those @ your Synod?] were willing to tell (you)." Okay, let me accept that on face value. Before going to explore Crossan, Armstrong, and Spong, did you read the Bible first? Cover to cover? In an engaged, thoughtful way? The Bible is a message -- God's message to us -- that is not just written as we would write, chapter by chapter adressing particular issues and concerns. The Bible is delivered, if you will, over a "broad spectrum" or, to use another ancient analogy, it is an intricately woven tapestry. To quote the axiom, the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed; the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. It's as simple and as complicated as all that. I encourage you (because I don't believe you have) read the Bible, first -- if, in fact, you are a serious scholar as you've said -- before reading commentaries and criticisms. By the way, I'm all for commentaries and criticisms. Just know what it is that's being critiqued.
# posted by 
: 10:20 AM
: 10:20 AM
To read your column... "I believe" or "I don't believe" or "The more I humanize Jesus, the more I come to admire him"... it's really rather remarkbable the hubris with which you've set yourself up as the arbiter of Christ and who He is. Not once do you quote scripture. You simply superimpose your own idea of whom you think Christ is on top of the Son of Man. And that, is idol worship. You have fashioned (a) god after your own (imagined) creation. Before signing off, you say people have "robbed Jesus of His own humanity". What?! That's all this culture has left Him with, just listen to what people say, "Jesus was a good person," or "Jesus said to love everyone". Glam, as you so glibly refer to His God-nature, is indeed part of whom the Son is -- all God and all man. The sorry fact is, few people wish to acknowledge this. Just as you've done here.
# posted by : 1:13 PM
: 1:13 PM
Flavius Josephus ("Antiquities of the Jews") "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named for him, are not extinct at this day." I would rather be quoting the Bible but since you don't ever seem to do so yourself, I picked another source.
# posted by : 1:20 PM
: 1:20 PM
I infer by your use of the word "glam" and your doubt about Christ's bodily resurrection that you don't believe He is God. I can't give you chapter and verse (but you could easily look this up) -- nowhere is it recorded in the Bible that the Pharisees or any of those who wanted to kill Jesus ever questioned or denied the miracles He worked. What's more, they were even verified in Jewish tradition. (This also applies to the fact that Christ's lineage is that of King David's.)
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# posted by : 1:33 PM
: 1:33 PM << Home
